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Topic: Eric S. Raymond



  
 Eric S. Raymond - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stallman is the original author of some of the most widely used and sophisticated pieces of free software in the world, including Emacs, GCC, GDB, and GNU Make.
His disagreement with Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation's views on the ethics of free software in favour of a more market-driven stance has exacerbated some pre-existing tensions in the community.
His involvement with hacker culture began in 1976 and he contributed to his first open source software project in 1982.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond   (985 words)

  
 The Cathedral and the Bazaar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Cathedral and the Bazaar (abbreviated CatB) is an essay by Eric S. Raymond on software engineering methods, based on his observations of the Linux kernel development process and his experiences managing an open source project, fetchmail.
In contrast, Raymond claims that an inordinate amount of time and energy must be spent hunting for bugs in the Cathedral model, since the working version of the code is available only to a few developers.
The essay's central thesis is Raymond's proposition that Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow (which he terms Linus's law): if the source code is available for public testing, scrutiny, and experimentation, then bugs will be discovered at a rapid rate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar   (550 words)

  
 Open Source Software
Eric Raymond is the most visible spokesperson for what is called "open source software." Unlike proprietary software, in which the original code is disguised as a string of 1s and 0s, open source can be read and modified.
Eric Raymond and other Linux supporters were in Washington recently demanding refunds from Microsoft for Windows software they didn't want to buy.
Raymond sees Linux's lower cost and greater reliability leading to a fundamental change in the way software is created.
http://www.iota.org/Winter99/opensource.html   (1551 words)

  
 Salon 21st Let my software go!
Raymond's essay "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" is one of the most eloquent explications of the theory that software design is best served by having a community of independent hackers work together in an atmosphere of complete openness.
Raymond is an influential advocate of the principle of free software -- which declares that the best way to produce quality software is to give the world free access to the underlying source code.
Raymond isn't Moses -- the free software movement doesn't have any one leader -- but the Netscape announcement has indeed given the hard-core geeks of the world a glimpse at the Promised Land.
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/04/cov_14feature.html   (925 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond
Eric Raymond is a computer programmer, and a loud and avowed libertarian.
In Raymond's lexicon, proprietary software is the "cathedral" approach, where customers receive whatever is offered, take it or leave it.
Open source software, by contrast, is the bazaar -- a wild marketplace where anyone and everyone can grab the software they want, adapt it to their specific needs, de-bug and re-jigger everything at will, and then anyone else can grab the new and improved, de-bugged and re-jiggered software.
http://www.nndb.com/people/446/000022380   (313 words)

  
 Interview: Eric Raymond goes back to basics
Raymond: The thing that made The UNIX Programming Environment wonderful, and still unmatched as a book, is that they talked not just about tactics but about philosophy, about thought patterns, about the unwritten generative rules that UNIX programmers use without really being aware of using.
Eric's latest book, The Art of Unix Programming, is scheduled to be published in August.
Raymond: It was, I mean I built an intelligent configurator -- basically a baby rule-based expert system -- for configuring Linux kernels, and I did it all in less than 8,000 lines of Python.
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-ivesr.html   (2384 words)

  
 frontwheeldrive.com: eric s. raymond interview
Eric was also instrumental in founding the Open Source Initiative with Bruce Perens, an organization set up to rebrand the ideas of the Free Software Foundation and remove the political tingings behind providing source code for all to see.
No doubt many of you reading this interview now are using Linux or other pieces of open source software, so you may already a have a feel for what this movement is all about.
As the author of an industry shaking essay that prompted Netscape executives to release their source code and the man who posted the notorious Halloween documents leaked from Microsoft, open source proponent Eric Raymond really needs no introduction here.
http://frontwheeldrive.com/eric_s_raymond.html   (1480 words)

  
 IBM to enlist Eric S Raymond?
ESR is also infuriated by SCO's denigration of the Open Source development process in general and SCO's explicit insults to the skills of the Linux community in its
So, Raymond will be in a much better position to contribute his knowledge of Unix to IBM's defense if he's a consultant hired by IBM.
After SCO filed its lawsuit against IBM on March 6, Raymond immediately wrote a blistering, detailed analysis and refutation of SCO's claims.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=9536   (510 words)

  
 About ESR's Articles
ESR justly reminds that paying authors for the value of the information they produced is a mirage that can't ever be implemented.
Eric has since confirmed that he regards ownership of software as continuous with other intangible property rights, and considers it fully justified by his classical-liberal and libertarian principles.
Any apparent contradiction detected by ESR between free software practice and theory seems to me as due to a consequential misreading of free software theory, which he reduces to the common consensus on free software licenses.
http://fare.tunes.org/articles/about_esr.html   (8367 words)

  
 [No title]
Raymond's clear and effective writing style accurately describing the benefits of open source software has been key to its success.
The third edition of Learning GNU Emacs describes Emacs 21.3 from the ground up, including new user interface features such as an icon-based toolbar and an interactive interface to Emacs customization.
This comprehensive guide to the GNU Emacs editor, one of the most widely used and powerful editors available under UNIX, covers basic editing, several important "editing modes" (special Emacs features for editing specific types of documents, including email, Usenet News, and the Web), and customization and Emacs LISP programming.
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/18   (384 words)

  
 Amazon.co.uk: The Art of Unix Programming: Books
Eric Raymond offers the next generation of "hackers" the unique opportunity to learn the connection between UNIX philosophy and practice through careful case studies of the very best UNIX/Linux programs.
The problem with ESR is that he is so determined to be the guardian of the myths of the Linux/Unix community that he actively seeks to create them.
This book attempts to capture the engineering wisdom and design philosophy of the UNIX, Linux, and Open Source software development community as it has evolved over the past three decades, and as it is applied today by the most experienced programmers.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0131429019   (1299 words)

  
 Armed and Dangerous » Blog Archive » Microsoft tries to recruit me
Eric is welcome in places like IBM and so many other, which wouln’t even consider inviting Richard Stallman (with all due respect to RMS).
ESR might not be linus but he has done a lot for OSS, it’s either a mistake or a joke.
Eric Raymond is NOT in Free software foundation and is NOT fond of the GPL.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/index.php?p=208   (12512 words)

  
 ONLamp.com -- ESR: "We Don't Need the GPL Anymore"
ESR believes that the advantages that FOSS have over proprietary software are so great that companies that engage in that kind of activity still won't be able to compete against FOSS solutions.
I think the point that ESR is trying to make is that it doesn't matter if some company steals open source software and uses it to create a proprietary product.
The bottom line, if I understand ESR correctly, is that the lowered process friction of FOSS means that the open source community will always be able to out innovate any proprietary company through sheer force of numbers.
http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/30/esr_interview.html   (6961 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond: The false prophet of open source
The other simple concept that Raymond doesn't get is that people who work on open source projects have no incentive to make it usable.
They don't get paid more if "dumb users" (ESR's words, not mine) can use their software.
I don't feel like writing about his ideas, because lots of people write about him and his punditry of open source software and how it's going to solve everything from world hunger to jock itch.
http://underscorebleach.net/jotsheet/2004/04/eric-s-raymond-open-source   (826 words)

  
 Open source advocate: Release Java code: Builder AU: Program: Java C C++
Eric S. Raymond, president of the Open Source Initiative, said in an open letter Thursday that Sun needs to choose between controlling Java and seeing it spread as widely as possible.
Raymond praised Sun for releasing specifications for the Network File System software for sharing files over a network and for opening the source code of the OpenOffice.org competitor to Microsoft's Office suite.
However, he said, Sun's technologically superior NeWS graphical interface for Unix lost out to the X Window System, because the latter was open-source software.
http://www.builderau.com.au/program/java/0,39024620,20283040,00.htm   (692 words)

  
 LWN: Eric Raymond interview
Minsky was certainly correct in that there are some philosophical questions which are greatly clarified by attempting to build computer models of cognition, which was what he was interested in doing.
ESR: Well, it's a problem, but I'd say either we believe in the effectiveness of open source development and that will spread because of economic advantages, or we don't.
He's trying to move a substantial portion of the Unix world from using the traditional sort of interface that depends on text streams and piping and sockets to using a different kind of interface like CORBA and interprocess message passing.
http://lwn.net/2000/features/ESR   (5684 words)

  
 Monadnock Contributors: Eric S. Raymond
Eric S. Raymond is an Internet programmer and writer living in Malvern, Pennsylvania.
http://www.monadnock.net/contributors/raymond.html   (28 words)

  
 SS > NF reviews > Eric S. Raymond
Raymond eloquently exposes the myths behind that thinking, and shows how and why Open Source can work to everyone's benefit, developer and customer alike.
It may seem heretical that the way to develop software is to make the source freely available to anyone and everyone.
This is a fascinating and deeply thoughtful account of the Open Source phenomenon, why it works, and where it is going, by one of the "accidental leaders" of the movement.
http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/~susan/bib/nf/r/raymond.htm   (439 words)

  
 Alibris: Eric S Raymond
by Raymond, Eric S. The finer points of UNIX programming are explored by the author of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar: Musings on Linux and Open Source by an Accidental Revolutionary."
The first rigorous, complete analysis of open source software: methodologies, technologies, economics, and psychosocial dynamics.
Historically and etymologically richer than its predecessor, this valuable reference supplies additional background on existing entries and clarifies the murky origins of several important jargon terms, while...
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Eric_S_Raymond   (565 words)

  
 Linux Today - Eric Raymond on the VA Linux Change of Course
Raymond couldn't answer a few of our questions without making forward-looking statements...
ESR: The world used to need Linux hardware specialists, but times have changed.
VA Linux& decision to leave the hardware business in favor of concentrating on its SourceForge OnSite software and its OSDN web properties, we wrote Eric Raymond with a few questions.
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-06-28-008-20-PS   (1993 words)

  
 Inspired by Work
Raymond is a visible and vocal advocate of open-source software -- a radically different approach to software development that has produced, most famously, the Linux operating system, the Apache Web server, and the Perl scripting language.
The Linux operating system had some 12 million users at the end of 1998, and Raymond estimates that there are about 750,000 developers scattered around the world.
Eric S. Raymond, open-source evangelist, explains why and how these programmers do their work -- and what that means for the rest of us.
http://www.fastcompany.com/online/29/inspired.html   (3546 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond definition of Eric S. Raymond in computing dictionary - by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and ...
Eric was involved in the JOLT project and GNU Emacs as well as maintaining several FAQ lists.
Eric S. Raymond definition of Eric S. Raymond in computing dictionary - by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Eric S. Raymond - One of the authors of the Hacker's Jargon File.
http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Eric+S.+Raymond   (110 words)

  
 Problems and Methods to Avoid
Andrew S. Tanenbaum and Robbert van Renesse have given us a detailed analysis of the general problem in A Critique of the Remote Procedure Call Paradigm [Tanenbaum-VanRenesse], a paper which should serve as a strong cautionary note to anyone considering an architecture based on RPC.
This may well be because these methods don't actually solve more problems than they cause.
All these problems may predict long-term difficulties for the relatively few Unix projects that use RPC.
http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch07s03.html   (2001 words)

  
 Q&A: Open-Source Guru Eric Raymond
As president of the Open Source Initiative (www.opensource.org), Eric Raymond is working hard to build bridges between old-line Unix programmers and the emerging Linux evangelists in the business world.
For one, he's out with his new book, "The Art of Unix Programming" (Addison-Wesley, 2003), which offers insights into programming culture and thought-processes about working with Unix.
During a break in his promotion schedule with the book recently, Raymond chatted up a bunch of technology topics with internetnews.com.
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3306511   (1193 words)

  
 Linux News: Software : Eric S. Raymond: Sun 'Thrashing' for Direction
"At the moment, Sun is sort of thrashing," declared Eric S. Raymond, president of the Open Source Initiative, a nonprofit open-source computing advocacy group.
06/29/04 8:04 AM PT "At the moment, Sun is sort of thrashing," declared Eric S. Raymond, president of the Open Source Initiative, a nonprofit open-source computing advocacy group.
Linux News: Software : Eric S. Raymond: Sun 'Thrashing' for Direction
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/34834.html   (868 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond - Wikiquote
Eric S. Raymond (born December 4, 1957) (often referred to by his initials, ESR) is the author of "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" and the present maintainer of the "Jargon File" (also known as "The New Hacker's Dictionary").
Anybody who has ever owned a dog who barked when strangers came near its owner's property has experienced the essential continuity between animal territoriality and human property.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond   (343 words)

  
 Linux Today - Eric S. Raymond: VA going proprietary? Naahhh...
ESR has finally gone off the deep end.
Linux Today - Eric S. Raymond: VA going proprietary?
Solve the real problem instead of just grousing ab
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-08-25-011-20-PR-BZ-CY   (1281 words)

  
 TLC :: Hackers: Hackers' Hall of Fame
Not only is he respected for his astounding skills as a programmer, but Raymond is also valued as a fierce defender of the Open Source Movement, which is based on the premise that programmers should be able to read and modify all software source codes.
In this IT paradise, programmers would be able to improve software and fix any potentially lethal bugs.
Annoyed by the fact that most people misuse the term "hacker," he wrote The Hacker's Dictionary and How to Be a Hacker.
http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/hackers/bio/bio_13.html   (170 words)

  
 Eric Raymond: 'Let Java Go'
Eric Raymond, president of the Open Source Initiative and one of open source's fathers, recently called again on Sun to open its Java code.
To Raymond, the "'Sun Community Source License' is an instrument of proprietary lock-in, and most open-source developers simply do not want any part of that."
Eric Raymond, one of open source's founding fathers, calls again on Sun to open Java up.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1539432,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03119TX1K0000594   (1461 words)

  
 Hacking and Refactoring
His research has helped explain the decentralized open-source model of software development that has proven so effective in the evolution of the Internet.
His own software projects include one of the Internet's most widely-used email transport programs.
Eric S. Raymond is an observer-participant anthropologist in the Internet hacker culture.
http://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=5342   (2053 words)

  
 Target : Entertainment : Books : Computers & Internet : Authors, A-Z : Raymond, Eric S.
Raymond, Eric S. Computers & Internet : Authors, A-Z
Target : Entertainment : Books : Computers & Internet : Authors, A-Z : Raymond, Eric S. All Products
The Cathedral & the Bazaar : Musings on Linux and Open Source by an Accidental Revolutionary
http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html?node=565706   (90 words)

  
 Why Python? Linux Journal
Eric Raymond is a Linux advocate and the author of The Cathedral and The Bazaar.
Moreover, He'd distance himself from any shallow advocacy.
I really want to be a hacker (a real hacker, not some masquerading cracker), but i really just wanted ESR to know I appriciate his work.
http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=3882   (5857 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond
ERIC S. RAYMOND has been a Unix developer since 1982.
Known as the resident anthropologist and roving ambassador of the open-source community, he wrote the movement's manifesto in The Cathedral and the Bazaar and is the editor of The New Hacker's Dictionary.
http://www.informit.com/authors/bio.asp?a=24a13869-850c-4cc5-91b2-a0f42666d28d   (42 words)

  
 The Cathedral and the Bazaar by Eric S. Raymond
The seminal "agoric systems" papers by Mark Miller and Eric Drexler, by describing the emergent properties of market-like computational ecologies, helped prepare me to think clearly about analogous phenomena in the free-software culture when Linux rubbed my nose in them five years later.
Read related articles on Computer industry, Internet economics, Linux and Software development
Eric Hahn, Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer at Netscape, wrote me shortly afterwards as follows: "On behalf of everyone at Netscape, I want to thank you for helping us get to this point in the first place.
http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue3_3/raymond   (9625 words)

  
 Bogofilter Home Page
Eric S. Raymond wrote the initial version of bogofilter.
Since 2002 it has been brought to maturity by David Relson, Matthias Andree, Greg Louis, and a group of open source volunteers.
http://bogofilter.sourceforge.net   (211 words)

  
 SineApps: OT: Eric S. Raymond offered job at Microsoft
Eric S. Raymond the leader of attacks on Microsoft, creator of much of the licencing material, bringer of IBM to Linux, and Open Source advocate has been offered a job at Microsoft!
On the day *I* go to work for Microsoft, faint oinking sounds will be heard from far overhead, the moon will not merely turn blue but develop polkadots, and hell will freeze over so solid the brimstone will go superconductive.
OT: Eric S. Raymond offered job at Microsoft
http://www.sineapps.com/news.php?rssid=987   (144 words)

  
 Eric S. Raymond, Bazaar Financial Advisor
Yet today he continues to be in demand for technology investment advice and serves on the Merrill Lynch Technology Advisory Board.
Raymond kept all 150,000 of his open source tulip bulbs through April 2002, his last month on the VA Linux board.
Raymond carries his own luggage, but the burden of burning so much money on behalf of free software isn't weighing him down at all.
http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/stories/2004/06/12/eric-s-raymond.html   (983 words)

  
 Microsoft tries to hire Eric S Raymond - MonroeWorld.com Forums
Among the many other claims to fame, Eric S Raymond is the author of The Cathedral and the Bazaar, a 1991 book that discusses the differences between a centralised software development model (i.e.
He is also the person who has published and commented the famous Halloween documents, a series of Microsoft internal memoranda discussing strategies to fight (and destroy) Linux and other open source software.
So even if you haven't heard of Eric S Raymond before, you should know by now that he is no friend of Microsoft -- and that's if we put it mildly.
http://www.monroeworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23767   (776 words)

  
 Beating the Averages
(This is probably what Eric Raymond meant about Lisp making you a better programmer.) You can't trust the opinions of the others, because of the Blub paradox: they're satisfied with whatever language they happen to use, because it dictates the way they think about programs.
Eric Raymond has written an essay called "How to Become a Hacker," and in it, among other things, he tells would-be hackers what languages they should learn.
By induction, the only programmers in a position to see all the differences in power between the various languages are those who understand the most powerful one.
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html   (4122 words)

  
 Homesteading the Noosphere by Eric S. Raymond
Eric S. Raymond has been writing open-source software for more than fifteen years, and has authored or collaborated on many popular programs.
He is often described as the Internet hacker culture's tribal historian and resident anthropologist, and edited The New Hacker's Dictionary (Third edition; Cambridge, Mass.: MIT Press, 1996).
Mike Whitaker inspired the main thread in the section on acculturation.
http://firstmonday.org/issues/issue3_10/raymond/index.html   (11281 words)

  
 Eric Raymond - Libertarian
His books include The New Hacker's Dictionary, which he conceived and co-edited and which was reviewed enthusiastically in The New York Times, PC Magazine, Byte, PC World, and numerous other popular and technical magazines.
Raymond and others believe open source is not only economically viable, but, in many cases, economically inevitable.
Raymond is also an active defender of First and Second amendment rights.
http://www.self-gov.org/celebrities/eric-raymond.html   (395 words)

  
 Linux Today - Eric S. Raymond: Beware the Microsoft shell game
A few hours ago, a friendly journalist tipped me that Craig Mundie of Microsoft is going to make a major speech in New York tomorrow attacking open-source software -- specifically, attacking the GNU General Public License.
Eric S. Raymond: Beware the Microsoft shell game
:Eric S. Raymond: Beware the Microsoft shell game
http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-05-02-019-20-NW-CY-MS   (1869 words)

  
 Finding Eric Raymond
Since most people currently link to the old site, instead of the new one, and there are no forwarding links, people will run search engines (such as Google) and think that Raymond's material is no longer on the Web!!
This means that widely-referenced material such as The Cathedral and the Bazaar (and related essays), The Jargon File, How to Ask Smart Questions, The Art of Unix Programming, the Fetchmail home page, and other such material have suddenly disappeared from the web.
Raymond has asked Google to update their pages, to no avail.
http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/finding-raymond.html   (284 words)

  
 Q&A: Raymond Expounds on Open Letter to Sun, McNealy
In an open letter to Sun Chairman and CEO Scott McNealy, Raymond said Sun should "Let Java Go." Recently, Raymond sat down with eWEEK Senior Writer Darryl K. Taft at the Wharton Technology Conference, put on by the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, in Philadelphia.
Q&A: Open-source advocate Eric S. Raymond stands by his criticisms of Sun's flirtation with IBM and restates his interpretation of the infamous "Halloween" memo, which linked Microsoft to SCO's lawsuits.
Eric S. Raymond, an open-source advocate and author of the open-source classic "The Cathedral and the Bazaar," last month called on Sun Microsystems Inc. to open-source Java.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1544764,00.asp   (940 words)

  
 MSFT tries to hire Eric S Raymond Gadgetopia
Your name and contact info was brought to my attention as someone who could potentially be a contributor at Microsoft.
SEO Article Learn from the experts with our SEO article.
Eric S. Raymond tells a story of how Microsoft recently tried to recruit him
http://www.gadgetopia.com/post/4321   (330 words)

  
 d/esr-rich
I was at my machine, hacking, when I got email congratulating me on the success of the VA Linux Systems IPO.
-- Eric S. Raymond "Are we to understand," asked the judge, "that you hold your own interests above the interests of the public?" "I hold that such a question can never arise except in a society of cannibals." -- Ayn Rand
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:21:23 -0500 From: "Eric S. Raymond" To: wire-service@snark.thyrsus.com Subject: Surprised By Wealth A few hours ago, I learned that I am now (at least in theory) absurdly rich.
http://lwn.net/1999/1216/a/esr-rich.html   (1432 words)

  
 OSI Position Paper on the SCO-vs.-IBM Complaint
The principal author of this position paper (Raymond) has been a Unix developer since 1982, is a technical specialist in systems programming technologies related to those at issue, and is a historian whose writings on the open-source community and Unix ([TNHD], [CATB], [TAOUP]) are widely considered authoritative both within the community and outside it.
He has been since 1997 one of the leading theorists and (both in his individual capacity and as the president of OSI) one of the principal spokespersons/ambassadors for the open-source community.
OSI is one of the principal advocacy organizations of the open-source community, which is alleged in SCO/Caldera's complaint to have been beneficiary of tortious and illegal behavior by IBM.
http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html   (11220 words)

  
 Open letter from Eric Raymond on SCO IP lawsuit
I have been given a copy of an article, supposedly to run in the Wall Street Journal tomorrow, which reports that Caldera Systems (which now does business as the SCO group) has filed suit agaist IBM for multibillion-dollar damages over supposed disclosure of SCO's intellectual property to what SCO calls the "free software community".
Open source advocate/author Eric S. Raymond responds to the SCO lawsuit with an open letter.
Open letter from Eric Raymond on SCO IP lawsuit
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7161510956.html   (765 words)

  
 Eric Raymond (I)
You may report errors and omissions on this page to the IMDb database managers.
Discuss this person with other users on IMDb message board for Eric Raymond (I)
Find where Eric Raymond is credited alongside another name
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0713253   (84 words)

  
 :: News : Microsoft : Microsoft tries to recruit Eric S. Raymond
:: News : Microsoft : Microsoft tries to recruit Eric S. Raymond
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The Mad Penguin™ RSS/XML news feed is available here.
http://madpenguin.org/cms/?m=show&id=5080   (152 words)

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